The Business of Swinging – A Much Uglier View
Recently, Mrs. Gentlenibbles and I have become a little more exposed to the business side of the Lifestyle and it is not near as pretty or as fun.
It just seems when money is involved it takes all the fun out. Your response may be, “Well simple, just don’t do it for the money!” We absolutely agree and we don’t.
You see, all the activities and parties that we sponsor, we do for free. None of them are designed to generate a profit for us.
To be frank…..it just seems awkward for us to make money off our friends and parties. So we have never charged the clubs, taken any of the door, or built in booking fees for profit, which is a standard practice for event planners.
As a matter of fact, for our last “meet and greet” we were able to negotiate with the owners of the club to take the money they were planning on paying us for each couple in attendance and just take that amount off the price of admission. Which was great as we were able to make a BYOB party at only $20 dollar/couple admission. This is unheard of for lifestyle events and it showed as well when over 500 swingers showed up for the party.
The problem is just because we are “pro bono”, doesn’t mean other entities involved are not seeking to make some money off the deal, and now due to the large size of many of our events, that sum of money these “swinging” businesses are fighting for can be quite large.
Don’t get us wrong, we support Lifestyle businesses and absolutely understand their need to profit in order to stay in business and continue to provide services to the swinging community. The issue lies in the fact that some of these businesses rest quite low on the integrity scale when it comes to beating out their competitors.
Here are some examples of problems we have personally ran into:
Once, when hosting a large party at a club and a simultaneous hotel takeover we were visited by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission the day before the party. We wholly support the TABC doing their job and we had nothing to worry about as we were in compliance with all regulations. It was the fact that the TABC officers told our representative that they had been informed of our little shindig and possible violations by another club owner. This was confirmed when later we found out that one of the other large parties that weekend had received the same visit and conversation.
On other occasions we have seen other city officials and inspectors “sicked” on a club or event to try keep it from happening.
It flabbergasts us that any business owner in the Lifestyle would actively seek to sabotage another Lifestyle event, even at the detriment of his/her potential customers and the community itself.
We won’t even get into all the drama between the various online swinging communities. If you have been in the Lifestyle for more than 8.7 seconds you have no doubt figured out they all tend to hate each vehemently and are pretty quick to boot members suspected of promoting one over the other.
Many of them have automatic filters that flag and remove (paying) community members who violate the cardinal sin of typing a competitors name, abbreviation, or name of their large event in an email or forum thread.
For the large meet and greet we talked about above, we were denied the ability to even promote the party on two of the major online swinger communities. Both of them offered to allow us this privilege if we would place their banner as top billing on our website even after we explained this was an independent not for profit party at a club they support and their banner was already well repesented on our blog. (Both of them have had several new members referred by us in just the last month)
Once again, it is not that we don’t understand the business mechanisms that drive the policies above we are just frustrated with the enthusiasm in which it is enforced at the obvious expense of the Lifestyle community in general.
About a year ago, we were excited when we were approached by a new entity, representing itself as a national Lifestyle association and trade group. We were completely disappointed to find it was a for profit business charging Lifestyle businesses and individual swingers membership fees to receive the collective amenities it provided. Those amenities turned out to be (full price) discounted travel that it was profiting off of and discounts at the Lifestyle businesses they had already bilked out of membership fees.
They were gracious enough to offer us free membership into their venture if we would be kind enough to write a favorable article regarding their organization….That did not happen.
In their defense, I believe they were only following the model of the previously founded and debunk Lifestyles Organization, which from what we can tell was structured the same way.
I apologize if the above seems a bit harsh, as this is not our usual style. From here on out we plan on being a bit more chipper……
Why can’t Swingers utilize a non-profit structure to allow us in mass to organize ourselves, defend ourselves, promote swingers awareness (chuckle aka – recruit new hotties), and host sexy and fun events designed to maximize fun instead of generating profit.
I actually stumbled upon this sexy little website the other day which seems to be a good model.
What do you think? Would something like this work in Houston or on a national scale? Wouldn’t it be awesome if tickets to fund Lifestyle parties thrown as fund raising events were actually a tax deductible expense?
We would be very interested to hear what you think about this idea. We would also love to hear from some legal and non-profit professionals what the reality and process would be to establish such an organization.
Loading ...In the interest of full disclosure…
We would like to go on the record, for those curious, on what kind of money does exchange hands on this blog.
You can be assured that Mrs. Gentlenibbles and I are not modern day nude Robin Hoods and that we do receive compensation in some ways for some of our activities.
For instance, you may notice that we promote several of those Lifestyle communities we discussed here on this blog. Anytime one of you sexy newbies clicks one of those links and signs up for that site Mrs. Gentlenibbles and I get a little something something. (Very little – but money none the less) And all but one of them does not charge us for our membership since we actively promote them on the blog.
We also have businesses occasionally pay us to advertise on this blog, the same as you would see in a newspaper, magazine, or even on yahoo. (Though we think ours are much less obtrusive)
All of these little sources of income have added up to be enough for us to cover the cost of hosting this blog on a rather fast server over the last couple of years, which comes at a cost of over $50 a month.
And even though we don’t technically make any money at our events, that does not mean there are not some perks. For instance we always get in for free and sometimes even have complimentary bar tabs at our events. Most importantly, in our eyes, we get tons of free publicity for this website! Along with those perks, several of the clubs have given us complimentary memberships to their clubs which make partying in general much cheaper on the pocketbook.
A funny side note. We actually hosted a party for a club where upon arrival we were charged full admission as well as handed a $130 bar tab at the end of the night. To this day, we are still not sure what the deal was with that?
All of these events and our website promotion also gives us great tax advantages on a lot of our Lifestyle expenditures.
Lastly, and most importantly on a pure “pervert level” we are quite sure we have seen more boobies from all these actvities than we would have had we not taken part!
At the end of the day, life is always measured in boobies
~some famous pervert (or me)
We are also have some things in the works that will be “for profit” and having this great blog will be a great way to promote those things.
Spoiler alert…. Look for a Gentle Nibbles board game, some sexy swinger clothing items, and even a possible book to be unveiled sometime in the future! (Note – That “sometime” may be incredibly long!)
So until the next big sexy party (Austin Lake Invasion and Hotel Takeover), talk dirty and live clean!
Mr. Gentlenibbles
“The issue lies in the fact that some of these businesses rest quite low on the integrity scale when it comes to beating out their competitors.”
Preach it brother! Amen.
There was this one time when I was going to get Door Hangers for all of my attendees at an event and this blogger (who is an excellent writer with a HOT wife) beat me to it. I let it slide. But only because his wife let me see her boobies.
Miss you guys. We can totally relate. Give us a call if you ever wanna trade “war stories” or if Mrs. G feels like flashing us again.
John
Swingercast,
Holy Crap that is funny! How in the hell have you guys been? We miss the crap out of you awesome people!
Definitely, we need some co-flashing again!
Mr. G
P.S. when you get a chance, txt me your number. I got a new phone and lost my addy book!
Awesome post…Mr. S and I tried to host a party once or twice but they were for a purpose. A MASS Birthday part a LONG time ago and one other celebration and we quickly found this is not for us. Hosting is work and I work Monday to Friday, the weekends were made for not-working. We TOTALLY agree and to not put it as elegantly as you did, people just get greedy and miss the whole point of the party. For us, it was to get real (hot) swingers together and celebrate without ridiculous membership fees or having to pay $12 for a drink. Is that too much to ask?
From another perspective, being the swingers is also awkward in these situations. We’re perceived as only supporting certain events and then not liked for not supporting other parties or membership sites. Of course you guys have never done this to us, but you’d be surprised the comments people make when you do go out or try something new. We also have found that we’re invited to some events, especially when there is a big ticket price involved, but then not invited to other functions. We don’t hear from a couple or see them for months and then all of a sudden they send us texts and e-mails and notes to come out to this great event because they’re trying to get paid. Reallly? Invite us to everything and let us decide or don’t invite us at all. I’m deflecting. Sorry. My point was all these sites and all these parties, it’s too much to go to them all.
In regards to the promotions. I hate to say this, but when I’m out at a party, especially a big one, I don’t see banners and I come from a marketing world where I look for sponsors most of the time. I’m having too much fun to care about whose banner is hanging where. I personally think banners in the club are tacky when they are hanging all over the walls and draped like toilet paper on beams, especially when it’s a nice club. Maybe I’m boujay, but I like to think of the Spectaculars as an upscale couple with class. We’re out to have fun, not to be sold to. Don’t give hand me flyers…if I’m looking for night life clothing, toys, drinks, or a membership site, I can find it by asking my friends or picking up some information in the ladies room at most.
Having worked for a non-profit, I can provide you with some honest feedback in saying that even a non-profit has expenses and is for profit to some extent. The problem is always the members; they just don’t see all the hidden expenses, effort and work and less informed people start complaining about things that really they know nothing about. To put it simple, even water costs money to have around, right?
Just our 25 cents…PS- Tax breaks are awesome…we like that. LOL
SpectacularCpl,
Hey Hotties! Thanks for the feedback! and let us just say……
You two are so hot you are not only invited to anything we throw…..but will work da*n hard to get your sexy asses in for free!
~thenibblers
Interesting article. To be honest, I have no problem with any party promoters getting paid to work out all the details of the party and then be the ones to put there asses on the liability line. We haven’t been to one of your events (yet… a lot of miles…) but they all sound great, and I know they come with a lot of preparation, stress, work… I know I don’t want to do it! So, don’t feel guilty about the perks, or the boobies. Or even the perky boobies. Anyway, thanks for doing it, and thanks for being up front about it. It does suck that the competition is so cut throat. The way I see it, the more people who get interested in swinging at all, the more opportunities there are for ANYone to have a more successful event. Rising tide lifts all boats, yeah? Which means more boobies for everyone, and I think we can all agree that that’s a good thing.
Promoters and websites used to get along, but then money got in the way. There used to be one site in the houston area that dominated, and they did a good job of being open minded. But they got greedy, and in an attempt to increase memberships, they started to let search engines crawl the member profiles, then they started to let single males sign up. What started as a lifestyle site turned into a chaotic dating site. Then when they started to lose their core members to other sites that reflected the original values of the website, they got defensive, and kicked these members.
It would be great if there was a Pro-bono lifestyle site, but the truth is hosting websites is never free. Most of the larger communities run on fully dedicated servers, which cost hundreds / month in hosting costs. Also it would take a large amount of time to build and run such a site. Communities when not moderated can quickly get out of control. The overall idea of a Free site is nice, but something has to cover the costs. A small cover at events helps, but even that can sometimes fall short.
Also I have somewhat disagree with EclipsedBirds. More boobies does not equate to quality boobies. I would rather go to a smaller party with the “HOTS”, than to go to a larger party with the “NOTS”
Me and my partners have access to a 7500 sqr ft penthouse in houston. It has a great view overlooking Houston. We specialize in providing secure confidential environments for clients who wish to have private parties and events. Our rates range from $3,000 – $6,000 depending on the days and services that you may need for your event. When you have an event at the penthouse you will have access to it from 9am to 8am which means that you may stay overnight if you wish. There are discount rates offered to clients who book multiple days.
We take pride in our ability to accommodate our clients’ needs for their unique events.
We provide security and services such as a bar tender, spa treatment; catering and hostess services are also available for those who wish to enhance their experience at the penthouse.
If you wish to see the location please email me at pjcoul@gmail.com
While I agree making money off of the lifestyle above whats required to run an establishment is advantageous at best, weve found the parties that charge tend to have less “posers” and typically tend to have a better atmosphere. I dont mind paying to attend if it means having the peace of mind that everyone around me is serious about the lifestyle.
pjcoul
I think you are going to have a hard time finding a promoter to take you up on your offer. Yes it might be a very nice place, but you need a website to help give people a taste of what you have to offer. Then you could possibly do corporate bookings which would be much more stable than relying on promoters. If you are interested in getting a high end flash website to showcase your penthouse let me know.
I’m commenting only in regards to online social networking sites.
Most people have no idea what it takes to run a successful social networking website. It’s not as simple as some have tried to make it out to be. Buy an off the shelf site, and then member poach from other sites. That has been tried more times than I can count. Until you actually own a social networking website with annual expenses exceeding $400k from salaries, hardware, programming, upkeep, insurance, etc. most people see the “business” as a mere hobby, which it is not, for the business owners. Most social networking sites have rules of behavior and user agreements, and most people click right through without thinking about what those rules are and why they really exist.
Million dollar businesses have to operate within some type of standard operating procedures, and most legitimate businesses also have policies around how to handle their competition or perceived competition or what could become their competition. Most successful businesses also have non-compete provisions with their top employees as well to prevent them from customer poaching, etc.. It’s a common business practice in just about every industry.
Anyone who invests millions of dollars into their business will take the malignment and mischaracterization of that business seriously. Reasonable adults know that for profit businesses don’t take kindly to deliberate customer stealing or member poaching. Afterall, Burger King won’t be happy to see McDonalds posters hanging on their walls, and probably won’t let their customers hang them there. This doesn’t change the fact that the customers are already aware of both restaurants and will choose which one they frequent on their own, probably even both establishments. Fair competition dictates that ethical standards be used to come by customers and that simply stealing ideas or customers is shady at best.
There is plenty of room in the lifestyle for everyone, there is enough to go around. There is plenty of potential customers as well – the universe is awesome that way. People who operate from fear and an attitude of “lack” feel the need to talk down their competition, break the rules to attempt to steal members and then bitch because they got in trouble for breaking the rules they knew existed when they agreed to the terms. Most social networking site have separate rules specifically designed for “affiliate” clubs and party groups which protect both the affiliate group’s status on the site and ability to use its functionality and the business owner who is after all, permitting access to their member base by an outside organization.
From what I can tell, successful online lifestyle organizations are found by new members in primarily three ways: 1) internet traffic which is neither easy to come by nor inexpensive, 2) affiliate referrals (online) which also cost money in affiliate fee payouts, and 3) word of mouth. There is a reason there are certain sites which are more popular in certain geographical regions than other. Think about any city in the US and then think about which online site is popular there. I’ll bet you 90 to nothing it has to do with geographic concentration and word of mouth through club relationships which takes years to develop, and their SEO position.
When anyone attempts to circumvent the natural growth factors inherent in achieving a concentration in an area by “short-cutting” the system it hurts business for those who paid their dues to be there. Most of the “organizers” I am aware of who bitch the most about lifestyle sites not letting them poach their members, have the same rules on their site(s). Think for a second about some of the party groups out there who bitch that they can’t post their parties held for another internet site on xyz site, and then go and attempt to post your party on their website and see what happens. Do as I say not as I do?
The fact is, most lifestylers are more than well aware of every single site out there, what the rules are, and where to go for the information they want. Every site is not for everyone, and some sites will offer you more of what you are looking for than others. I, like most, am a member of more than one site just to meet new people – cause not everyone is on every site, and that is okay.
The problem is not greed or attempting to block anyone out of the market. Every site and party promoter has the exact same tools at their disposal (SEO, website promotion, bought traffic, ppc advertising, word of mouth, etc). No one is preventing anyone from going out and pounding the pavement and getting their own customers by playing by the rules. But when people don’t play by the rules, they want to act like they are a victim of some huge conspiracy because they got caught and couldn’t break the rules anymore.
It is a shame, that what starts out for most people as simple fun can turn into a “hassle” with regards to politics, rules, user agreements and such. However, most things in life work that way. Rules keep order and peace when followed, and create drama and chaos when not. We don’t play sports, video games, or other seemingly trivial hobbies without some “rules”. Even swingers have their own rules! It should be no surprise that a company in business to make a profit and to serve its clientele (even if they are swingers) must establish and enforce certain rules for the betterment of its community as a whole and protect the interests of their valued club owners whom they have worked hard to establish relationships with in the first place.
Its usually the rule-breakers who bitch the loudest about “why can’t we all just get along” when the problem is that they don’t follow the rules they agreed to and suffered the consequences, which they agreed to as well. Free sites like GentleNibbles rely on affiliate payouts from referrals to support their existence, and deserve recognition for offering the services, information and networking opportunity that they do.
I can’t say with any reasonable clue what the costs are to maintain a site of this type, but I can tell you that its never cheap to operate a website. Although I’m sure they aren’t in it for profit, they probably would maintain the same attitude as a for profit lifestyle site with regards to anyone posting negative information about GN on the GN site or directing people on the GN site to not frequent the site anymore and to go somewhere else. Commons sense would prevail.
The issue is perceived value. If one site offers you value of some kind, stay there and support them in whatever manner they are set up for such support (paid, non-paid, donation, etc). But by all means, do not attempt to devalue the site in anyway and expect to be welcomed with open arms.