Forsake All Others – Oh Crap
We had a comment come in today on a post we had written several weeks ago regarding the number of practicing religious people we have met in the Lifestyle. It really was a very thought provoking comment and got me to thinking.
Here is the comment:
Hi M/Ms Nibbles.
We are relatively new to this site and do enjoy your input. Knowing that we relate to the “Bible belt” deep south upbringing/ mind set…….just one question…in the marriage vows, “to forsake all others, ’till death do you part”………..please help us, if you can, clarify where and what category that would fall under in the “Lifestyle” of swinging? We agree with your statement that it is open, honest and about pleasing each other. But this statement has come up for discussion with others in the lifestyle and we would like to see what your opinion is on concerning it.
Thanks for starting this thread/blog/discussion.
S & S
So after first reading this I had a little tinge of guilt. I thought to myself, here is this woman I love more than Santa Claus, Snickers Bars, and Ketchup and I have broken one of the very promises I made to her on the most special day of our lives. I know silly, we are approaching our third year of swinging and this is really one of the first times I thought about it quite like this.
So after a few minutes of contemplating (my pastor growing up would have called it “Justifying”). I thought why am I feeling guilty for this. My actions over sixteen years mean so much more than words we didn’t write repeated after they were read out loud by a man I don’t even like!
So here was my response: (Sorry if it is a little sanctimonious – if you read this blog a lot you know I get like that sometimes)
We were very lucky in the fact that at the ages of 19 and 20 we were forward thinking enough to include in our vows right after the “forsake all others” the following line…
“except when f*cking, blowing, sucking, licking, or kissing during swinging scenarios”
OK just kidding….
To be honest we have not really thought about it like that. First you have to realize that as we have grown up from those kids sixteen years ago we are not the same. Religion plays a much smaller role in our life and the concept of a “vow before God” does not really intimidate us.
We don’t feel our vows are forged in repeating some words a pastor got out of marriage handbook. After sixteen years, what cements us are the experiences, creations, and life events that we have enjoyed and endured together for so many years.
We have shared the births of two awesome children, the devastating miscarriage of a third. We have not experienced a new city, state, or country without the companion of each other in more than sixteen years. We have buried grandparents, parents, and friends and have played nurse to each other no matter how gross the task after various surgeries and sickness throughout our life together. These are the tools of our promises to each other.
I am not sure I answered your question as far as how to reconcile this vow with your lifestyle activities. Although, I think swingers are probably honoring these vows with their honesty and openness more closely than those millions of couples with hidden stashes of porn and multitudes of secrets.
Hope this helps!
Mr. G
So now I am curious and would really like to know. What are some of your thoughts and beliefs about this? Does anyone struggle with this? If not, why? Please share! (Come on, I don’t ever beg for feedback – I really want to know)
We look forward to reading your comments!
“You may now kiss the bride!”
Mr. Gentlenibbles
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I am not looking to replace BB, and at the end of the evening, we come home together. She chooses me above all others, and I choose her above all others.
You would not be having this conversation if you were talking about playing Bridge or Spades with another couple. Just because we choose to have sex with others does not mean we are not forsaken all others in support of our partner.
This is quite the question!
I’ve grown up in church throughout my life with many members of my family being pastors. So I completely understand your talking about the “justifying”.
To me, we are not forsaking each other because we still put each other first and foremost in our lives and marriage.
We do not allow others (swingers, family, friends) to cause division in our marriage. Swinging only enhances what we already have and is fun for us to enjoy together, just as doing any other fun activity together. It bonds us stronger together knowing that we can share these things with each other.
If it EVER caused a division between us, then we would no longer continue with the lifestyle.
~ Mrs. Discreet
Deviant,
Great point! Forsake is awful strong, it’s just sex! right!
Mrs. Discreet,
Is it too late for me just to say, ” Yeah, what she said!” Very well put!
Mr. G
I have been with Mrs Cardz for 12 years. We have had some rough times like all couples do. But even at the worst of times, whether we’re down and out together or totally furious at each other. I would give the world for her.
Like you we are approaching our 3 year swinging anniversary. We have had some AMAZING times together and with others. But if the gorgeous woman asked me to walk away from the lifestyle, I would do it without a second thought. That to me is “foresaking all others”. I would give all the pleasure I could have with others because she asked me to. My relationship is so much more then this lifestyle and at the end of the day all that matters is that we love each other and we will face the world together.
Great Question and Great comments!
Mr. Cardz
Hey Wildcardz,
Great to hear from you sexy people! As always, very well said!
Mr. G
Swinging can do nothing good for marriage. If you cannot or are not able to get what you need from your spouse and must seek elsewhere you have no business being married. Anything else is just a lie you tell yourself to justify one or the others lack of something. Sleep around if you want but man up and do it outside of marriage.
Interesting question as my mother works for the catholic church and my father grew up in a very strict southern religious family. I guess for me, I don’t associate swinging and religion. Religion is probably the only thing that really hasn’t changed or modified over time based on societal trends. Swinging actually requires many values (trust and honesty being the key two) that obviously many non swinging couples do not have considering the difference in divorce rates between swingers and non-swingers.
This lifestyle is something that we enjoy together and has enhanced our own relationship. We have met some amazing friends and of course had some unbelievably mind blowing sexual experiences. Bottom line for us though is this lifestyle is about us. If both of us aren’t really enjoying ourselves we would get out so quick with no hesitation. Are we telling ourselves a lie…actually the opposite because this lifestyle introduced something that maybe we were lacking prior and that is a 100% complete openness with each other about EVERYTHING. That openness and honesty extends far beyond the lifestyle as do the friends that we have met.
Mr Butler – Would love to hear your background as to whether you have ever been involved in the lifestyle? I will say we never got how the lifestyle could be so great until we pretty much literally fell into it.
This is certainly an interesting topic. We’d be curious what other Catholics have to say on this, but as for us, we don’t recall the phrase “forsaking all others” in our vows. There is, however, a pledge of “love and fidelity” during the exchange of rings. If fidelity were simply interpreted as sexual exclusivity, then we’ve obviously broken that vow. But if it’s interpreted in a much broader sense, there is no one to whom we are more devoted than each other. We trust each other implicitly, and our fidelity to each other is without question. We’re in the lifestyle because both of us receive enormous pleasure not just from the variety of great sexual encounters we get to have, but also from watching each other have those encounters. It is an amazing bonding experience for us.
We don’t find ourselves in agreement with many of the Catholic church’s rules and regulations, but as Christians we’re usually able to reconcile what we do in our private life with Jesus’ teachings because what He preached basically boiled down to this: Don’t hurt other people and don’t hurt yourselves. Because Mrs. Shark and I both enjoy the lifestyle together, we aren’t hurting each other, and we try our best to pick playmates who feel the same as we do so our actions won’t hurt other couples either. Therefore, we believe the lifestyle can only be sinful when the participants are not being honest with each other, because the lack of honesty is what causes people to get hurt.
Whew, didn’t mean to get that philosophical. I guess we swingers aren’t kidding when we say this lifestyle is not for everyone.
Because when you say your wedding vows, you vow to forsake ALL OTHERS, keeping yourselves ONLY to EACH OTHER!!!
That means sex is to stay within the bonds of marriage, meaning husband and wife having sex with EACH OTHER!! NOT other people.
In the 10 Commandments it says DO NOT commit adultery.
Well any sex OUTSIDE of marriage is considered adultery.
Even looking at someone who’s not your spouse lustfully is adultery, because your committing adultery in your heart.
So yes, swinging is VERY MUCH cheating.
Gerard,
Why your passion (indicated by the capital letters strung about) is quite obvious. Did you read the article or is this just swinger bashing?
This article is not really about cheating and adultery? As swingers we obviously have very different views on this THAN YOU DO! (just kidding with those caps there
)
This is more about the discussion of the promise to each other and then the repositioning of view after entering the Lifestyle.
Mr. G (THE SEXIEST MAN I KNOW)
We had a very traditional christian wedding with very traditional vows.
(Yep- even the love , honor, and obey)
Foresake all others?
We didn’t have those exact words in our vows, but do each put eachother first.
As for swinging being adultery… current views hold that sex with anybody besides your spouse is adultry. So folks like Jeremy can call names and say we commit adultry.
In biblical times men could have as many women as they wished.
Married (multiple wives) or concubines (girls they didn’t marry, but did have sex with – aka girl friends)
Married women could not have other sex partners unless permission was given by the husband because women happened to be property of the husband back then.
A husband could even sell his wife.
Women could have as many sexual partners as they pleased if not married.
The premaritial sex no no you hear in church actually comes from that property thing again.
A virgin daughter was worth more than a non virgin. The father basically sold her to the highest bidder, and as a virgin she sold for more. (Could compair that to a new car vs a used car in sales now days)
Women who happened to not be virgins and happened to not be married could have sex with who they pleased.
They had very few rights however, so protection and financial stability was still wanted… so they sought marriage.
Once married they became property of the husband and gave up all rights to their own body.
Exodus 22:16-17 (King James Version)
16 – And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
17- If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
I was raised Penticostal the wife Catholic, I love my lord and savior Jesus.
You are all correct in your own views. Dispite differences and offences, it comes down to one inevitable fact; your actions a nd descitions are between you and your spouse and your God.
No one elses opponions matter. God bless you all.
Jason and Kristine,
Awesome! Very well said. Most of my personal frustration with the church would all go away if the wonderful attitude you display prevailed.
Thanks so much for the feedback. And though I am not a practioner I truly hope your God blesses you as well!
Thanks,
Mr. G
I felt the same question and had a misgiving for a little bit after my hubby sent me off for the weekend to celebrate our first getting a schlorship to college and going all expenses paid. So having fun ….. is what we had pillowtalked about all our marriage about sexy stories and fantasies but had had very few moments that could even be classified as lifestyle-ish. As the months went by and I saw how much my hubby really loved all the pics and videos he was receiving in return, I began to feel better and know that it is definitely ok for him to send me off with camera in purse to have stories and pics to talk about later over coffee in the am!
Hot,
We are glad you feel comfortable with it. It sounds like you have a pretty sexy story. We would love to hear more.
~the nibblers
Reading thru all the comments of each and every one, I do so appreciate everyone that has put forth their heart felt feelings and beliefs on this subject. There are so many good points from everyone that commented, and it is so evident that each couple has arrived at “truthfulness, openess, and honesty”..and above all COMMUNICATION!!! This is such a key thing for a successful marriage, relationship, or what ever the two people in the eyes of God identify with. The “lifestyle” seems to be almost helping couples to become closer and if one or the other is not comfy….then walking away. There is so much to life but communication about this seems to be leading to a depth of honesty that does not “justify” the thoughts and actions, but is growing stronger couples….. but I am reminded of a passage, “he who is without sin, cast the first stone”. We are given but one day at a time..and each day is precious! and Living it to the fullest with someone, bound in your hearts is the on earth ultimate!!!
After a dissuasion in collage with a fellow student who was a religious archaeology student he pointed out all the alcohol in the last supper painting with the comment that dont you think in a time period of no lights, comforts we have or entertainment all they had was alcohol and sex. They had to have swapping and drunk parties as that is all they had.